My final verdict. (read)

madalchemist · Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 648 Location: Sydney

Hello.

This post regards 2 issues: guildy conduct, and a resolution to the argument between Wonju and Pns. I have taken time in lengthy hours in conversation with the two protagonists, and below is my conclusion.

On the first issue.

No 1. If you have a problem with another guildy - YOU TALK WITH ME. If I'm not around, you talk to an officer or Major, and I will deal with the offender(s) myself. You DO NOT, and I repeat, DO NOT take the matter into your own hands. You DO NOT fire insults back. You most definitely DO NOT threaten another guildy.

If something has been said, to which offence has been felt, you TALK WITH ME.

The most valuable thing that you can contribute to this guild is by giving your guildy's equivilent RESPECT. Treat them as you would treat have them treat yourself. Equality of treatment is one of humanity's most sought after qualities. Value it. The rest is secondary, and this includes your effort in donating time, resources, gold, and so on.

On the second issue.

Let me be open and frank about the allegations. I'm not a leader by dictatorship, but one who leads for the people. Thus, my thought process and decision making is open for discussion for all people. There is nothing to hide. My final decision however will not change. I am posting here because my working hours means I am unable to get online for another week.

Wonju. You made the allegation that Pns told you in confidence a while ago that he believed that myself Treehugs (and/or major) had conspired to prevent himself and Sweetpetal from entering Kara regularly. There was more to this, but this was the essence of it. And it was from here that the verbal exchanges between the two of you became more heated, resulting in the screenshot posts that were posted by Pns.

I find it difficult to believe that Pns would say this. I find the idea that I would ever conspire to anything of the sort impossible to comprehend. However, if there was something that was said like this, you were wrong to instigate further response to antagonise the situation. Instead, the best action you could have take would have been to TALK with ME. Retaliation is, in my eyes, nearly as bad as the initial act.

Pns. You refuted the allegation as rubbish. You said to me that the beginning of the argument was posted in those first screenshots you took, and prior to that, there was no single encounter between you and Wonju that may have instigated the reactions witnessed. You further went on to say that you've never had or caused any trouble between any person in the guild before. I pulled you up on the blatantly decietful nature of that statement, to which you belatedly clarified it with "on this server".

Every argument has a beginning - an instigation. I find it difficult to believe that the posted screenshots were the beginning. I find your lack of alternative plausible explanation interesting - in the sense that, when pressed as to why Wonj would say such a thing, you suggested that it might be because he is a "c*nt" or "was abducted by aliens". Amusing possibilities, if nothing else.

You tried to decieve me with one or two statements. You also, at the conclusion of our conversation had the gall to ask me what you needed to do in order to get promoted to officer. I couldn't FATHOM an appropriate response to such an incredulous proposition! Especially at 3am.

My decisions are as follows.

Given the persisting uncertainty, neither of you are gkicked out. However, the nature by which the two of you have conducted yourselves, in a manner not too different from 8 year olds, i'm implored to tell you both to: GROW UP, AND GROW UP FAST. Because the greater world out there doesn't tolerate this childish behaviour - these days, people get solicitors and sue. For your own benefit, please, cease acting childish and grow up.

Wonju. You are on a 1st warning. No more childish insults. No more random tells to someone on your ignore list and ignoring them afterwards. That was for school yards. You're in a big world now. I wont look so kindly upon you if this happens again. If you have problems, you talk with me, and I will sort it out.

Pns. You are on a FINAL warning. This is not the first time you've been at the hub of trouble, so we've just about had enough. If I so much as even hear that you have insulted, berated, threatened, or unfairly teased another guildy then I will have no hesitation but to remove you from the guild. I won't even discuss it with you, you will be gone.

This is my findings for all to see. You know where these two people stand with you, and they are examples of how NOT to behave. You are all in a mature, adult guild. Behave like mature adults. I am not here to babysit.

Tree

Ccpl · Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 370

/signed

Let me also add this,

If someone 3000km away from you, that you have never met before, calls you a dickhead and insults your pet budgie in an online game/chatroom - what do you do?

You, as an Adult

A) Ignore Them
B) Laugh at their childishness, then ignore them

You dont, as an Adult,

A) Threaten to slit their throat and nuke their house from orbit
B) Call the IRS and dob them in for false fraud allegations in the US
C) Retaliate with threats and continous harrassment because your a bigger keyboard warrior than they are

So many people I see in this game who use the Internet for an excuse to hide behind their computer and insult whoever they want - those people are cowards, nothing more.

Nobody likes cowards, in real life or the virtual world. If you have a problem with someone you never met, chances are its you who has the problem.
_________________
Cecepel - 70 Mage
Bubbleocece - 70 Pally
Cacapal - 70 rogue

All better geared than your mum

madalchemist · Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 648 Location: Sydney

WTB one weekend where I can sit down with a cup of tea and quietly pvp

Ccpl · Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 370

Gboot everyone for a weekend?
_________________
Cecepel - 70 Mage
Bubbleocece - 70 Pally
Cacapal - 70 rogue

All better geared than your mum

madalchemist · Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 648 Location: Sydney

Or gboot myself one day and rename to "Treethugs", go around Zangarmarsh looking for world pvp...

Looks like just every other tree.. except...

mypns · Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 22

ok lets just say hypothetically that there is a "conspiracy" to get me out of the guild.

the seed has now been set that all someone has to do is say i abused them and im out of the guild

great
_________________
Say P N S fast to get the real meaning of my name Wink

madalchemist · Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 648 Location: Sydney

Part of growing up is learning to take responsibility for your actions. Another part is ceasing to abuse people at your discretion.

Just about everyone else can do it, so can you.

mypns · Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 22

i have always taken responsibility for my actions

pity this time i didnt actually do anything and yet received my "final warning"

id still like to see proof of what i "apparently" did
_________________
Say P N S fast to get the real meaning of my name Wink

madalchemist · Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 648 Location: Sydney

- persistently abusing people over a long period of time (multiple tells from multiple people over time. I don't need screenshots)
- refusing to acknowledge this by suggesting that "I didn't do anything", when you were at minimal part of an nigh on equivilent abusing session with Wonju.
- suggesting decietfully that you'd never cause any trouble between any person in the guild before, which required me to pull you up on that incorrect comment AND then having the gall to ask what you needed to do to become officer (left me stunned, that did). I haven't even mentioned the point about the rediculous deal you proposed to me: "If I (pns) didn't send any abuse to any guildies in the next month, you (Tree) would promote me (pns) to officer" - to which I said most obviously said No to.

No more please. Grow up.

fyredemon · Joined: 25 Oct 2006 Posts: 10

Wow i havent played in ages and thought i would come on the forum and have a look whats goin on.

is mpns the guy that ran around calling anyone in infernal vengeance abusive names?

If he is then im sorry but why would you let that little child back in to your guild?

Zulsoka · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 411 Location: Cenral Coast nsw

hey Fyre, good to hear from ya.