Sunday raids

Bashkan · Joined: 24 Dec 2006 Posts: 209 Location: Sydney

Most everyone would be aware i was a little less than pleased with the state of affairs that yesterday's raid scenario opened up.

Here's the problem as i see it.

What time do we raid? I cancelled a dinner last night as i was looking forward to some group PvE stuff only to find that the raid had been formed at 6pm, no indication that it was going to reform later unless they hit a block (i.e. Nightbane) and it was full of the same faces that run on Thursdays. There were others that are geared and were suffering a similar fate and been previously Kaz leaps to mind as one who's taken the bench for others the past few weeks.

So what happened ...? Essentially those of us who took the time out to gear ourselves pre-kara (yes my pants/trinket/chest/bracers/waist/Idol are all still non-raid crafted or badge bought) found ourselves on the night that was supposedly for the geared team to be sitting on the bench.

Now is this just me crying foul about not getting to raid ... absolutely.

Sundays was the day we were told we get to run. I had one of the GMs complain to me that they hadnt seen Attuemen for weeks ... well boo hoo ... its been months since ive seen them with my main and yes there's drops there for me, but that was price we paid for trying to keep the less geared happy.

There are regular faces i see in both Thursday and Sunday raids. Now you may say that is about group config and needing certain classes, but there are regulars who get runs on both days who once again were getting runs last night. That is really poor form from a group organisation perspective.

I'm over it ... sort it, make it fair or im out. I've tried everything possible to build this guild and get people in and help organise things. At the moment i think its so Major can have 3 sets of gear and noobs can get gear in 4 weeks that rivals what took me months of grinding out mats to get. I really sick of being called on for Kara for the wipe bosses so i can move 1 spot on a loot list get a 20g repair bill and use 40g worth of consumables. When do i get the easy badges? When do i get the easy loots? When do i get the easy rep?

ZA has been open for weeks and we've made one attempt at it. Awesome work ...

Wtf are we doing? We doing Kara cause its safe? We taking the least capable team in from the start to ensure it takes as long as humanly possible? We could do Kara in a day with the right team. Geo's old mob 9 manned the whole thing in one go.

So my challenge to the GMs is please sort this out or i'll be forced out of the guild as i dont see being excluded from raiding on the basis of having the most DPS and turning up on time on the right damn day as being the right way to go atm.

A few suggestions ... have a raid time at which the kara group (if there is one) will reform to pick the strongest team for the Sunday. Isnt this what we said we were going to do?!? This isnt to say you cant form earlier if you want ... go for it. Finish Kara. Then when the stronger group forms it can maybe go to ZA.

If you wanna gear your noobs then get them enough people to be able to run together. Major is a healer or DPS , Tree is tank or Healer ... you run the guild go lead the noobs. If you dont wanna do that then promote an officer who would. But leave those of us who've made the efforts and got ourselves geared through our own efforts able to rely on maybe just maybe getting a moment where we get to rightfully be first pick for a raid and see if we cant move this guild past Prince.

We used to run Kara with 1 team successfully and the people who were left out were getting upset. So we tried to run 2 teams, found we didnt have the numbers to do it properly. Additionally there was alot of squealing from people who had experienced the success of the previous team and were annoyed with the slow progress. So ... we end up back at one team and we say Noob night is Thursday night. Sundays at a certain time we will take the team best suited to progression into the raid whereever that may be. If i have misunderstood this in some way then let me know.
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madalchemist · Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 637 Location: Sydney

zzzzz

Been working my 2 jobs past few weeks, 13-14 hour days. The one Sunday arvo I have off, I log on, and people messaging me about Kara.

Guildi A: When's Kara
Guildi B: What time's Kara
Me: I dunno, when do you normally run it
Guildi's A/B: sometimes we start at 3pm
Me: Hmm, i remember MOTD said 7pm, but now nothing. Ok then.

Later

Bash & Kaz: Angry words about not starting @7pm
Me: To hell with this

I've run Kara from day one for months and months with zero reward, for the benefit of everyone else around me. I'm going back to pvp and helping lowbies. Sometime's i get a 'thanks for the heals' in pvp, and that's enough for me. GL with it.

Ccpl · Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 367

Edit: *GENERAL POST TO ALL OF IV*

Oh wow, where do I start...

Lets just say that I agree to disagree with certain points, but on the whole this is just a representation of the degeneration of this guild into what it was never supposed to be.

For starters - everybody back the fuck off the GM's for a second and think - where would Kara be without their assistance? All you self righteous little punks accusing the GM's and officers of favouritism and "getting 3 different sets of gear" and always getting in on the raids need to look at WHY we are typically always there:

They fill the core classes - Tanks/Healers/Dps
They are the typically the best geared of those roles
They always respec (99% of the time at their own cost) to fill what role is required (sometimes more than once during a raid)
They are typically well versed on the fights (or willing to read up on them before attempting it)
They provide leadership for the raid group

I guarantee that 90% of you wouldnt have a clue how much more effort is involved with leading a sucessful kara run. Many have tried and many have failed.

If Major has managed to obtain 3 sets of gear in the last few months - then good on him. We all abide by the same loot list, we all go through the same repair/consumable costs - however we all dont have to listen to the constant whining from people and making the big decisions on what classes we need/who we need to sub out etc and living with the consequences.

If your pissed off that you dont get to make the big decisions, then stiff shit and go make your own guild and quit whining here.

Secondly, this is a casual guild - CASUAL - C A S U A L. Just because the GMOTD says that the Kara raid is scheduled for 9pm Thursday nights - if we dont have a MT, are missing 2 healers and have subpar dps, its not going to happen. Long story short here is - dont cancel RL plans to make way for a game. If you dont have anything else to do, sure log on and play - thats what its here for - but dont come whining if you cancelled your sisters wedding because someone told you that kara was starting early...

Thirdly - this is the last time I will say this:

Kara is NOT for gearing up your greens.

Kara is for upgrading your craftable epics and good blues to epic kara loot and beyond.

If you do not meet the minimum kara requirements, do not even bother whining about a raid position.

Fourthly - No more raid democracy. We have tried it, it doesnt work. Every raid needs a raid plan - we tried it without one in ZG and failed miserably.

Every (Kara) Raid needs the following before it can start:

Designated Raid Leader (Old timer/Officer/GM)
Main Tank (capably geared)
2 Healers (capably geared)
At least 2 Well geared dps

Following this, I'll be discussing with the GM's on what bosses are classfied to what gear level.

PS:

Also, if you leave the guild and come back 3 months later - dont expect an instant raid position. If you go away for 3 weeks and come back, dont expect an instant raid position. (this isnt to say that you wont be invited to the raid - just dont go expecting that the people who put the effort in the last few weeks will just step aside for you or that you will be chosen first)
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Cecepel - 70 Mage
Bubbleocece - 70 Pally
Cacapal - 70 rogue

All better geared than your mum

Bashkan · Joined: 24 Dec 2006 Posts: 209 Location: Sydney

First of all ... apologies for the major call ... heat of the moment and all that.

The rest of it i stand by. My frustration is coming from where i thought we had an agreed path moving forward. If i misunderstood it fair enough. When Tree got messages from me last night the first thing i asked him to do was reinstate the GMOTD so it can be avoided (that would be a suggested solution to the problem not a whine).

Re: the multiple roles for the group ... yah mate i got a tank and i got a DPS. Theya re not the same char so i can't claim the respec cost but i drag that alternative out whenever im asked for by the raids.

Ccpl · Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 367

You read the post wrong - no where did I attack you or indicate that I thought you were trying to take over the world. My post was a general point made out to everyone - not to you in particular.

You indicated that in your view, the organisation of the raids and group organisation is not working - and I agreed with you.

Our agreed path forward has been altered by the many whines and (for lack of a better word) unauthorised changes to how we raid as a group. Right now it seems that anybody who feels like starting raid up will start throwing out invites to whoever is available and start up Kara - well not anymore.

As I said in my first post, I'll be discussing this stuff with GM's shortly - but you can be guaranteed if I have anything to do with it, that democracy raiding will be going out the door...

Edit: Original post edited to indicate its addressing everyone (otherwise Bash will cry)
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Cecepel - 70 Mage
Bubbleocece - 70 Pally
Cacapal - 70 rogue

All better geared than your mum

MajorMojo · Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Posts: 602 Location: Sydney

Now there's no need to fly off the handle.... sure we'll be stricter with our raid policies, i guess it was inevitable

I guess we've grown a bit too large as a guild to do everything ad hoc, it'll eventually lead to disruptions like this.

(btw my 3 sets of gear has 4 pieces of kara gear (of which 3 are for healing....which i use for healing kara raids!! I've only gotten 1 DPS ring, i even traded in my T4 token for healing gloves) Everything else has been heroics/PVP/Craftables)
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Official forum troll?

Ccpl · Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 367

Bashkan · Joined: 24 Dec 2006 Posts: 209 Location: Sydney

hahah cece ... thats only cause you're a dumbarse and let Alec have it all wiating for your drop from Prince like i did with the helm Very Happy

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Is it a bird? Is a plane? Its a spacechicken! Boom!

Ccpl · Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 367

Not my fault alec is a dirty loot whore Razz

Eventually i got my mace (not that one, but a good mace nonetheless)
_________________
Cecepel - 70 Mage
Bubbleocece - 70 Pally
Cacapal - 70 rogue

All better geared than your mum

madalchemist · Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 637 Location: Sydney

Ccpl · Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 367

Raiphane · Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:41 am Post subject:

I duno if you guys did Kara tonight (Sunday) but my net was down and out for about 4 hours, came back online about 20 mins ago but I was watching a movie and didn't notice.
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MajorMojo · Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Posts: 602 Location: Sydney

i wasn't round for the early part, but i heard Shawne tanked it, and they downed prince Smile

Perhaps we should try nightbane again 2nite!!!
_________________
Need more sleeeep.....oh LF1M Shaman scholo....me me me!

Official forum troll?

Zulsoka · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 401 Location: Cenral Coast nsw

u heard correct mojo. shawne tanked, we downed prince, all is good. now shawne knows how to do prince the IV way, we shouldnt have any probs in the future.

most of us know how we approach each fight, and all i want to say is that if u have ANY query about how the fight progresses, or u are unsure about position and targets etc, dont hesitate to ask. One answer to a simple question could save us all alot of headache.

madalchemist · Site Admin Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 637 Location: Sydney

Nice

I was worried that her dodge wasn't going to be high enough to tank Prince, but it sounds like you guys managed quite well. Additionally, Smaxy seems to be coming along quite well a a healer too!